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JustBeingAnthony

Fem4fem: Why feminine men with other feminine men not embraced within the black gay community!

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Recently, I interviewed Devin and Hymnosa who are both feminine cis men who are in relationships with other feminine gay men. As we all know the community isn't always welcoming of fem4fem freaky interactions, sexual chemistry or romantic engagement. For a lot of feminine gay men, having an attraction to other feminine men is against gay code. As a man who is in-between myself, I often deal with rejection from other feminine gay men regarding the fact I'm attracted to some of them.

Being that we are in a community that is heavily influenced by masculinity and masc-seeking men, we often see this mentality over and over again. What I love to hear from guys is the fact that they don't discriminate or have just a preference for masculine men. What makes me even happier is coming across feminine men who are attracted to or involved with other feminine guys romantically or even just sexually. 

Let's dive into this FEM4FEM group discussion and you guys reading this join by leaving your thoughts in the thread. 

 

JBA: I'm so happy to be having this discussion with you because I been wanting to do this topic for a VERY LONG TIME! Nobody else would touch it or understand how passionate I am about being a feminine gay man who is attracted to other feminine gay men as well.

Tell us how you came about being free-spirited when it comes to you being feminine and engaging with other feminine men?

 

Devin:  Thanks so much for having me, babes! I found out I was attracted to fem men at age 18, I had a very versatile relationship. We both were on the same level of masc and fem energy, there were no rules or expectations. It was pure judge-less love! However, after our relationship, I did find it a bit difficult to find others who were as free-minded, but it wasn’t impossible! I ONLY date men who are comfortable with their fem side, it screams confidence to me!

 

JBA: That's amazing, let's talk about your current relationship because you mentioned to me earlier the fact that you and your partner are both feminine. So how did you end up meeting your currently boyfriend? And what was his initial reaction to you being as feminine too?

 

Devin: Ray and I met through Facebook (modern dating [lol]), him and I Face-timed each other every single day for about 6-9 months straight and never missed a day. [Tbh] there wasn’t a reaction, neither one of said anything about it. That’s how I knew he was for me, it was that same judge-less feeling that I got from my first relationship.

 

JBA: Oh wow that's the type of love story so many of us want. I wanted some advice from you. I think for many of us we don't know how to find that connection with another feminine man without fearing the judgmental aspect of meeting one.

 

Devin: Yes!! If the connection is there nothing else should matter. Sadly in the gay community the first question you get asked is are you a top or bottom.....RUN FROM THOSE TYPE OF MEN!! Your relationship shouldn’t be about that! Sex is apart of a healthy relationship but it should rule your relationship. The gay community has to learn to let go of these rules and expectations to be free and date without judgment and stereotypes!

 

JBA: Oh trust me, I AVOID those types of men at all cost! I find it extremely annoying as if they're waiting or expecting me to say BOTTOM because initially, that's how I may appear to them. I spoke about this before but I feel like if gay men stripped away the top, bottom, etc titles and positions then our community would have more success at relationships because we wouldn't be so focused on who's a top or a bottom. I think there's a lot more for us to connect on or be able to find interest in each other outside of the bedroom. I think sex often clouds all potential of anything becoming successful when it comes to dating in our community.

 

Devin: You just said a mouth full!!! But fem4fem should be a thing, [tbh] it already is. I’m sure there’s plenty of men who are just like us but they don’t speak out! I would love to normalize fem4fem so everyone can know it’s OK to date a fem guy if you’re fem too! As long as the connection is there, nothing else should matter! 

 

JBA: Yes and I think we're bringing more attention to the subject with this discussion because it's not often spoken about openly. I believe Fem4Fem should be supported but also acknowledged. I find the feminine gay men that I approach often seem to not take me as serious or they automatically view me as a "gay dyke or fake top" for coming onto them. The problem I truly be attracted to them! [lol]

 

Devin: See that’s the stereotype I’m talking about, they don’t know anything about you but they instantly assume you’re a bottom too. They don’t know if they’re missing out on some good loving and their soulmate! But I have been seeing the word “fem top” floating around a lot lately maybe that’ll be a good introduction to fem4fem.

 

JBA: I think for me it's always my photos or vlog videos that reveal more of my feminine side with my mannerisms. In your opinion what would you say would be the best way for other feminine men to find other feminine gay men? 

 

Devin: Honestly it’s a hit and miss, you have to prepare yourself for rejection. Get used to rejection, either they say yes to the date or no. It’s not the end of the world, keep trying! There are guys out there who are fem4fem!!

 

JBA: What are some potential ways for feminine men to find a balance in dating other feminine men? Like what ways could they connect without coming into all the similarities in the relationship?

 

Devin: [TBH] the simple things will keep you connected, like going out on a date, music, conversation, life goals, basically things you guys have in common. Enjoying each other’s company! And both of you need to remember you’re both men at the end of the day and labels don’t matter, just enjoy each other. 

I feel as if fem4fem could be a real game-changer, fem energy is much more vulnerable and raw to me. I feel like it could be extremely groundbreaking for our community! I honestly think a fem4fem relationship is the sexiest shit on earth!!

 

JBA: While fem4fem relationships are amazing what are some disadvantages you would consider that often or sometimes appear in your relationship?

 

Devin: [lol] funny of you to ask, the only disadvantage is we both stay in the bathroom [lol] in a fem4fem relationship you both are always grooming yourself! You’ll need his & his bathroom at some point in your life!

 

JBA: How do you think the community can be more open-minded to the idea of fem4fem without dismissing it without at least getting to know a person first?

 

Devin: I believe we need more fem4fem representation in mainstream media! We need a couple or someone to look up to in a fem4fem relationship to show the public how incredible the relationship can be.

 

JBA: Yes  fem couples need to make some noise! Also, I think the image of fem is so misrepresented. Most gay men assume feminine men certain look but some muscular men are feminine but they are more tolerated due to their external image.

 

Devin: Very true!!! Boys who wear makeup and girl clothes from time-to-time like to top too! BLOOP! 🙂

 

JBA: When you first discovered your attraction for feminine men did your friends or other people look at you sideways for even expressing interest in other feminine men?

 

Devin: Yes!! Most of my friends are fem, the kept calling me a lesbian of course. But as time went by they knew what to expect and they knew what I liked. I have a close friend who’s also fem4fem! He and I understand each other a lot!

 

JBA: Oh wow are any of them single? [lol] link me up. What are some misconceptions you think fem4fem couples get or may encounter?

 

Devin: [lol] 😂😂 They’re all dating! I think a lot of ppl think 2 fem guys together won’t work because of anybody masc, but that’s not the case. Just because both of you are fem doesn’t mean there aren't any masc energy at all!

 

Devin: (Gotcha!) I also feel like fem4fem could be a masc bottom and fem too. I think ppl forget how versatile things can get in relationships. Also even if it’s two bottoms if the connection is there someone is bound to compromise.

 

JBA: Let's talk about masculine bottoms and fem tops. Because I dealt with a masculine bottom who kind of used the fact that he was masculine for certain sexual acts that I wanted to perform on him. How do you feel about masculine bottoms who use their masculinity as a way of not being open to allow the fem top to do certain things to them in bed?

 

Devin: I feel as though it’s hypocritical, nothing about bottoming is masc at all, let’s get that straight. If I’m topping you you’re not too masc for anything, that makes no sense [lol]!! I feel like it’s a red flag and you should leave that person [ASAP]. Ppl like to use their masculinity to bully a relationship mentally and sexually! This is a huge problem!

 

JBA: Before finding your attraction for feminine men were you in a stage of feeling like you had to be with masculine men because that's expected from you? Because I know a lot of us to start out going off of these labels and what's expected of us cause of what other people tell us who we are and our position in the bedroom should be.

 

Devin: Yes! When I was younger I did only date masc men, and I was a full bottom as expected. But as I started to explore myself more I knew that wasn’t 100% me!

 

JBA: Let's get into that part because this is the problem we see all the time. We're often programmed into believing that feminine men must follow the heteronormative relationship or sexual position model. I believe the heteronormative mindset is the issue for the lack of diversity in gay relationships.

 

Hello Hymnosa how are you love? 🙂

 

Hymnosa: Hey yall! very cool to be part of the convo thanks for reaching out.

 

JBA: How long have you been a feminine top interested in feminine men?

 

Hymnosa: Probably for about two years, my story is long I'm not sure how deep you all want to get into it? Shit is complicated, you'll know.

 

JBA: We can go as deep as you like. This is an open platform for you to share your truth and story. Tell us! 

 

Devin: Plz Do!! 

 

Hymnosa: I'm pretty small, I'm 5'5 with shoes on and you can see from my twitter pics I'm pretty fem of center, so it's pretty much always assumed I'm a bottom as a young person ( I came out of 15) I was a full-time bottom for a long time I guess because it was just easier and I never really questioned it and I had topped like once. Started out bi at 14 and gay at 15 and then I had a gender journey [lol] we know how that is. I have partner, I have been with him for 7 years who is a clinically attractive blonde haired blue eyed white boy with swoop hair and big ocean blue dough eyes and abs and is average height. He doesn't identify as "masc" he calls himself queer because that's more comfortable and kinda is uncomfortable with the idea of being cis but he is physically for sure more masculine and masculine-presenting than I am. Like I have visibly queer and visibly feminine and I get to read as such when I walk into a room and when I am on the dating apps. So a few things happened to make "fem4fem" happen for me I guess 1. I started topping more and got really into topping and started actively looking for bottoms.

Oh we're both open/poly, by the way, [lmao] 2. I think it was a reactionary thing to the masc4masc culture because like, masc4masc leaves no place for me and is isolating and toxic. This hyper-masculinity obsession with masculine chiseled bodies, it just doesn't fit my lived experience as a queer person or a fem person or a queer person of color for that matter like it just didn't gel for me. But I saw it EVERYWHERE it gets exhausting.

 

Devin: Whew!! I feel you on that!!

 

Hymnosa: And like, the more time I spent getting to know people in a meaningful way in the queer community the more a lot of those boundaries started to melt like fem gays and fem boys and people on the trans spectrum is beautiful and valid. I think part of it was like learning to love myself and understanding that I am just stuck in this body and I will never be masculine or clinically attractive and I'm unique looking and I have to just own it and rock it let alone the whole racism thing in the LGBTQ community, we can get into that later [lol]. But like, fem people can also be my friends like, who doesn't want to have bomb ass sex and get wild and then like... cuddle and watch drag race and laugh and scream?! Like hello, that's goals.

 

Devin: Yassssss!!!!! The BEST connection ever!!

 

Hymnosa: The more I got into it and started hanging out with other fem and queer people the more this obsession about masculine bodies was like.... why??? what is the reason? And often like I get really weird and wild reactions.

 

JBA: Yes the openness of being able to enjoy somebody while also having an authentic friendship is so hard to find but so much fun when you can just be yourself with them.

 

Devin: It’s such a freeing feeling to just be accepted for who you are!! For some reason, I feel like the east coast LGBT community is so much more advanced when it comes to exploring and rebelling against the toxic labels that have been created!!

 

Hymnosa: Yessss Devin that part!

 

JBA: I have a question for the both of you. How do you guys feel about feminine gay men who "pretend" or put on a front with other bottoms of acting "masculine" only to hide their true self to entertain a relationship or even sexual encounter?

 

Devin: I feel like they will NEVER genuinely be happy.

 

Hymnosa: Honestly when I first started messing with fem guys I found myself instinctively trying to butch it up to feel legitimate! Like I had imposter syndrome and I was doing it without even noticing and I had to be like wait, you're a woman stop.

 

JBA: Share that experience and the reaction once they found out you weren't masculine.

 

Hymnosa: The thing is I'm outwardly just not masculine passing in the first place so it's obvious but like, I would find myself doing little behaviors and changing my body language and saying things that were way out of character because I felt insecure. Often on the apps or if I have someone's attention and they smell the fem, it becomes a different conversation, as to desexualizes me like I'm less of a sex object. So I found myself avoiding conversations about gender expression completely. And like I couldn't even have a deep conversation with anyone about it because if it came up it was dead in the water it became about like "You're genderqueer? You're genderfluid? What's that? Are you trans? Did you spend time living full time as a woman? How are you a top? etc etc etc".

 

Devin: If ppl just erase all of these useless labels and just connect with ppl without judging, dating would be much easier!! I like u, u like me! Point black PERIODT!

 

Hymnosa: And I feel like I've been waiting and waiting for fem4fem to become a thing in the community to balance out the scale and I've been waiting for like the queer people dating app or the fem4fem dating app to give us a space off of grind but everyone is on there there's no escape they cornered the market but I've been ready for the next thing.

 

Devin: I’m 100% here for fem4fem! I would promote it!! Do you think the east coast is a more welcoming community for fem queer men? New York to be exact! They seem way ahead! And more verbal about being queer!

 

Hymnosa: It depends on where you go, I'm on the east coast but I'm not in a big metro center gay populated hub New York is ahead of the ball by a mile yes, they have it figured out more than other places, but the queer culture there is so concentrated like everyone can't afford to move to a gay metropolis [lol]. New York is a small (expensive) oasis and I love them but like I'm in western Massachusetts [lmao]

 

Devin: [lol] facts!! I visit annually! My fav place to be!

 

JBA: How do you guys feel about masc4masc?

 

Hymnosa: Here's the thing like, if you are masculine and you like masculine guys that's great have fun. But my problem with it and this relates to the racism discussion as well is like, people act like they have these individual preferences that they just formed because they are unique individual people. And they just like what they Like no, the body is political and queer sex is political. The porn industry and the media and everything we consume from when we are baby queer kiddos informs those preferences.

People think they are so precious and individual their preferences were just mad in a vacuum, like no we have to go deeper. So if you're masc4masc cool but we have to start asking why in a meaningful way and don't use it as a weapon to bludgeon other queer people like you're superior because you're not one of "those" gays or you're not like that. 

 

JBA: What advice would you give to other feminine gay men who may be interested in getting involved with other feminine men but not sure how to go about doing it from your own experience?

 

Hymnosa: Like the whole piece of the masc4masc tea that is centered around straight passing is so toxic and stupid and reductive. 

 

Devin: FACTSSSSSS 

 

Hymnosa: Thanks for engaging with me, both of you, I never get to yell about this and I had a lot to get out [lmao]

 

JBA: I want to thank you guys for joining me for this interview! I hope you guys reading it took something from it. If you feel the same way, indifferent or completely disagree let us know. Join the discuss now! 


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it’s a vibe it’s a mood 😛😜

 

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